Episode 58. Thriving During the Holidays with Lisa Woodruff

Lisa Woodruff of Organize365® is back for part two of her conversation with Lindsay Guentzel which was recorded live at the International Conference on ADHD in Dallas last month. Lisa helps Lindsay identify what’s most important to her this holiday season and how using planned neglect and boundaries can cut out unnecessary stress and avoidance over these busy weeks. Plus, Lisa explains the importance of accepting a person’s love language when it comes time for the gift-giving. Hint: you’re not going to change them.

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Lindsay Guentzel (00:01):

Refocus with Lindsay Guentzel is produced in partnership with ADHD Online, a telemedicine mental healthcare company based in Grand Rapids, Michigan that cares for ADHD’rs of all ages in towns, cities, and rural communities across the country. Are you self-diagnosed but curious about seeking out an official diagnosis? They can help with that too. ADHD Online provides comprehensive online assessments that are both affordable and easily accessible. And even better, you can take it in the comfort of your own home, at your own pace, in your own comfees, and even get a personalized treatment plan back in around seven days. To find out how the team at ADHD Online can help you on your journey and to see what services are available where you live, head over to adhdonline.com.


Hello, my name is Lindsay Guentzel, and this is Refocused a podcast all about ADHD, hosted by me, a person with ADHD. I was diagnosed in January of 2021 right before my 35th birthday. And let me tell you that so much has changed. So much has changed and still so much has stayed the same. I’m sure some of you can relate to that. Today’s episode of Refocused is actually part two of my conversation with Lisa Woodruff that we recorded in person at the International Conference on ADHD in Dallas back in November. If you haven’t listened to part one of my conversation with Lisa, it’s episode 57, released on December 5th, I highly recommend going back and starting there. It sets up Lisa and her own ADHD story really well, and offers up some really incredible life hacks for organization like planned neglect, something that she goes into further in our conversation today.


And here’s the other thing, we recorded this interview on November 19th before Thanksgiving. So, since Thanksgiving has already happened and because we talk about Thanksgiving in this conversation you are about to listen to, instead of editing it all out, I figured it’s actually a great chance for all of us to go back to last month and that long holiday weekend and examine what we did, what we didn’t do, and what we’ll do differently next year to make it a little less chaotic for ourselves and our loved ones.


That insight can also help us manage the next couple of weeks of holiday fun to make sure that it is just that, actual holiday fun. We also talk shopping and gift giving and love languages, and Lisa shares what she is doing right now to make sure she’s as ready as possible to get started on her PhD in the new year. It’s actually something I’ve never thought of, but it makes total sense, and for those of you who are planners who also love to shop, it is right up your alley. But before we get to part two of our conversation with Lisa, I mentioned that so much has changed and still so much has stayed the same. And now is where I invite you to pull up a chair, grab your favorite blanket or stuffed animal, put your phone on Do Not Disturb, because it’s ADHD story time.


I traveled to Grand Rapids, Michigan last week to work in-person with the team at ADHD Online. We are in the midst of planning our episodes for 2023 and had some really incredible meetings about how we can share more about neurodiversity. Had some pretty incredible events next year. And so I was so pumped to get the trip started. Creative planning is my jam. And as I’ve said over and over again and will continue to say, it’s really incredible what you’re able to accomplish when you work with people who believe in you and support you. It’s kind of magical you guys. And I want that for all of you. But back to traveling, which is the focus of this ADHD story time. It isn’t always easy for me, okay? It’s rarely easy for me. I over plan and over pack, and honestly, sometimes I leave the house for a weekend with enough stuff to help me survive the apocalypse.


I’m also always late getting to the airport. And because I know this and because I also know I don’t like that added stress, I’ve been trying to make changes. I believe they call this growth. I’ll set the scene for you. I live about 20 miles from the Minneapolis−Saint Paul International Airport. And so for a morning flight, like my flight on Thursday where I needed to be there around 5:30 in the morning and there was no traffic, it took a little more than 20 minutes for us to get there. And I had scheduled my lift the night before, which is immediate progress for me. My normal plan would be to leave too much packing for the morning, order a car later than expected, be upset that the driver is taking longer than I had planned and get to the airport already stressed out, before I’ve even caught a glimpse of the security line.


Like I said, I’m already ahead of the curve, it’s progress. I want to preface this by saying my driver was incredible. And he never once made me feel like I had kept him waiting. But in order to do the story justice, I have to tell you, he showed up early, an ADHD’rs nightmare. My reservation said estimated arrival between five and 5:10 a.m. He showed up at 4:55 a.m. You might be thinking that’s only five minutes. What I was thinking was, I was told 5:00 a.m. to 5:10 a.m. That means on the absolute best day I would be ready at 5:01 a.m., on the absolute best day. This was not one of those situations. And it actually reminds me of the story. Dr. Randall Duthler, Chief Innovation Officer and co-founder of ADHD Online shared in episode 16 of Refocus Together back in October.

Dr. Randall Duthler (06:24):

There’s a running joke with my wife and I tell her, “If you go and do something and you say, have the house ready, I’ll be home at five. Don’t show up at 4:45 because it’s not going to be done.”

Lindsay Guentzel (06:35):

I mean, how relatable is that? And that was me Thursday morning and I’m betting that’s been you before too. But like I said, my driver was really kind and delightful and I got to the airport with more time than I even knew what to do with. I was flying high, very confident. Look at what I’m doing, world, I can do this without it being pure chaos. And that’s obviously when the wheels started to fall off, if there were a voiceover narrator, this is about the time where he would have jumped in with that big booming voice. Little did she know. It’s always when we start to get a little too confident, isn’t it? The airport felt busy, but I was able to get up to the bag check counter pretty quickly and no lie, as I pulled out my driver’s license to hand to the Delta agent, I said out loud, “Well, that was very confident of me leaving the house without checking to see if my driver’s license was in my wallet.”


But don’t worry, it was there. And yes, it was very confident of me, someone who regularly forgets important things, to leave the house without checking my wallet. One of those things to add to the checklist, am I right? But I get my bag checked, I walk down to security, and despite dropping my phone in line and having the kind gentleman behind me return it to me, my 10 minutes in the security line were nearly pain free, minus the cell phone incident. And it wasn’t until I got up to the TSA agent and had to grab that pesky driver’s license that all hell broke loose. It was a, don’t remove anything from your bag’s day at MSP, one of those where instead of pulling everything out on the conveyor belt, you walk side by side next to another passenger down this aisle, it’s very wedding party like.


While a very cute airport dog sniffs you as you pass by. Ours was a very handsome German short hair, because yes, those are important details that I remember. Because we were told to not pull anything out and because the line was moving fast, I didn’t have time to grab my ID, until as I said, I was ushered right from the line to the TSA agent. And then, well, you might have guessed it, my driver’s license was gone. It wasn’t in my wallet in the spot I try so hard to put it back into after I’m done using it. It wasn’t in the mount of receipts I’ve been carrying around, not in the weird side pocket I never use. But let’s not pretend that it couldn’t have been there, because personal history tells us anything is possible. Checked my jeans front back, front, back, hands in hands, padding not there.


My jacket, wasn’t in there either. I start pulling stuff out of my carry on. I’m legit almost on all fours on the airport floor trying frantically to find my driver’s license. And this is where I could feel the tears coming on. Not again. But then I remembered, I had it maybe 15 minutes ago. My bag was checked because I had it with me. And so while the tears subsided, the frustration stayed. I checked my jean pockets again, went through my wallet again, checked every nook and cranny of my purse and then started back into my carry-on. A woman traveling with a pack full of kids suggested I check my pockets. Yeah, I’ve done that. “Check them again,” she said. She meant well. It was very clear she had been there before. See, my carry-on is a wonderful bag with lots of different compartments that I typically use as my gym bag, but when I travel, it becomes my carry-on.


And so there I am crouched on the ground well before 6:00 a.m. in a busy airport security line, digging through it to find the one thing I need to board my flight. But it wasn’t there. The wireless computer mouse I’ve been missing was there though. So, that’s a plus, found one thing I knew was missing but hadn’t started looking for yet. Tucked away in the bag with all of these wonderful compartments. And so yes, while discovering the computer mouse was exciting, it didn’t solve my current problem. I turned to the TSA agents and explained what was going on. I had it at the baggage counter, then I came here and now I don’t have it, because of course that’s how this thing is playing out. “If someone found it, where would they turn it in,” I asked? “Would they make an announcement over the loudspeaker? What if my last name is hard to pronounce? Is there a person we can reach out to?”


A quick scan of the security corral didn’t turn up my driver’s license, so I was ushered back through the packed lines of people. Back out to the ticketing area. I had to retrace my steps back to the Delta counter. And if I found my ID, I could come back to this much shorter line to bypass the security lines I had already sat in, and cash in those karma points, it was there. As I approached the counter, the Delta agent who checked me in recognized me, “Oh, someone turned in your ID right after you left.” After thanking her, no doubt, in uncomfortable amount of times, I walked back down to the security line, got into the much shorter line and made my way through security without any more issues, except having to explain to the new TSA agent that I had been told I could be in this special line by Agent Smith.


That’s obviously not her last name, but it is a good reminder that when you are dealing with people in an official capacity, always try to read their name tag so you can reference them later if needed. And that’s how I found myself at the airport through security with enough time to get coffee and breakfast that I was able to enjoy peacefully at my gate, which I would like to note, I was still somehow one of the first passengers to show up at. You guys, we are calling this growth. It was messy, yes, but it was still growth. I wish I could say that’s where the chaos ended, but of course, it’s not. I forgot my pill organizer sitting on the bathroom counter, damn you Lyft driver for being five minutes early. And was without my ADHD medication, Vyvanse. And my allergy medication for the whole weekend.


That’s a story for another day, but here’s a little teaser to keep you enthralled. It was awful. Later over the weekend my near typical, very organized boyfriend approached the subject. “I’ve been thinking of ways I could help you. And I don’t want you to take offense to this.” My body tightened and my fight mechanisms started kicking in. I thought, “There are too many days until couple’s therapy for you to be bringing this up now.” “But you forget a lot of things when you travel, and I was thinking that I could help you with that.” The impending doom dissipated very quickly and I canceled the emergency call to our therapist. “I do forget a lot of things,” I said, “and I would love your help with that.” With boundaries obviously.


Because I love my partner and I want to keep loving him and I want him to keep loving me. And in order for that to happen, while we are helping each other grow and make changes in our lives, both as individuals and as a couple, there needs to be an abundance of communication and lots of boundaries. I also want to just take a quick minute to thank the people who showed me kindness and patience Thursday morning, who didn’t make me feel like a failure or a nuisance, even when my mistakes or lack of planning made their lives and their jobs more stressful. We hear it all the time, but it’s something we can always use a reminder on. You don’t know what someone is going through or what they’re working through, and how you choose to respond and react can make all of the difference, for good and for the not so good. And with that little warm and fuzzy moment behind us, let’s head into part two of my chat with Lisa Woodruff, the founder and CEO of Organize 365.


The timing of this is very perfect because we just had a great conversation where we spent a little bit of time telling your story and then talking about what you’re doing with Organize 365, and you are here in Dallas for the International Conference on ADHD. And you’ve been all over, attending all of the different sessions. And what I am a little nervous about and very excited is I did mention to you that yesterday I told someone that I’m not putting up a Christmas tree this year. And you were like, “Well, we’re going to talk about it.” And I know right now you are in the midst of kind of this holiday organizational program. Tell me a little bit about that and what the goal is for the people who are doing it?

Lisa Woodruff (15:18):

Yes, so Organize 365 offers five free blitzes every year. The holiday blitz comes out the first week in November, goes until Christmas, and then we do out with the last week of the year. And the goal of these blitzes is to make the invisible work that you’re going to do in the next season visible, so you can make decisions and proactively decide what you’re going to do, what you’re not going to do? From a place of calm before the storm. Because we know that the holidays come every year, Thanksgiving in December, and yet they still surprise us. We think we’re prepared and we’re not prepared. But people who do the holiday blitz are actually really prepared not only in how much they’re going to do, but they proactively make decisions about what they’re not going to do. Which is why I love that you said you’re not going to put up a Christmas tree, but it seems like you still kind of feel bad about it?

Lindsay Guentzel (16:09):

I think I feel bad about it. It feels like it’s something I’m supposed to do, which is a lovely part of this. I love Christmas trees. I have to tell you, one of my favorite things to do around the holidays is staying up very late with the lights off, cuddled up on the couch, falling asleep next to the tree. But my boyfriend and I are taking advantage of, he’s got three weeks off in January. We’re not staying in Minnesota. I can work remotely. He’s got time off. We’re road tripping down to stay with my sister in Phoenix and we want to leave right after Christmas. So I don’t want to rush to get the tree down after Christmas or wait till the middle or end of January. And so, it’s so nice to have that conversation in my head and go, “Okay, I’m going to enjoy other people’s Christmas trees this year. I can do something smaller that’s a little bit more manageable and still feel like I’m enjoying the holidays. But it almost feels like again, it’s what I’m supposed to do.”

Lisa Woodruff (17:03):

So, two things. One, what you’re doing is what I call planned neglect. You are purposefully planning to not do something that you have done in the past, in the future. And so then at least you have a reasoning for people who will question you on it. The second thing I will say is, you never have to put up a tree ever. And you can have a Christmas tree up 24/7, 365.

Lindsay Guentzel (17:24):

I have friends like that.

Lisa Woodruff (17:26):

As long as we know that they’re, all of those things are acceptable. Once you are happy with your decision for you, I think you feel like you have to justify it to me or others. Let me just tell you, none of us are going to be in your house. No one will ever know.

Lindsay Guentzel (17:39):

I know, isn’t that so funny?

Lisa Woodruff (17:41):

And that’s why I want to bring it around to our house. In your house no one will ever know, unless you put it on Instagram or social media. And so much of what we especially as females do at home, is we see what everyone else is doing on social media, or the latest get your Christmas together checklist, which really is a list of what other people do. And then we make it our list so we can get an A on what somebody else is doing in their house. Instead of going, no, I would rather not put up and take down the tree, maybe get a small tabletop tree, turn it on and take a three week vacation like, “I want to talk about the vacation.”

Lindsay Guentzel (18:16):

And yeah, no, I love that. I do totally wonder how much of the stuff that we do now is influenced by what we’re seeing other people doing.

Lisa Woodruff (18:27):

A 1,000%. But here’s the thing, even before there was social media there was TV. And before there was TV, there was your neighbor. And I’ve competed with my neighbors before and they don’t … If your neighbors come in your house, they come in on the first floor, they’re not in your basement, they’re not in your garage, they’re not upstairs, but yet you prepare those spaces as if they would be there.

Lindsay Guentzel (18:50):

How do we break this? What is the mindset? Because it feels like you have a very comfortable way of saying, “Nah, I’m going to do that.” And I think a lot of us want to get to that point.

Lisa Woodruff (19:02):

I still say in my planning days, so three times a year we plan for the house in Organize 365 and you could sign up for that day with me and we actually plan it. And I will often say what I’m doing. In my next season of life, I’m getting a PhD. I will talk about how I’m finding extra time. On this trip I was talking to somebody in my office and they never take off their jewelry, like their necklace and their earrings. I was like, “That’s so weird. I always take everything off.” On this trip I didn’t. Do you know how long it takes me to put my necklace on? Like my nails, I’m probably saving five minutes a day now because I’m not taking my earrings and my necklace out. And so that seems like you’re like, “Where is this tangent going?”


We spend so much time habitually living our lives in programs that we or other people have plated for us. And we need to stop and think about every single thing we’re doing and if it still serves us. And I’m like, “Okay, well I’m going to take my necklace off once a month and wash it and then I’m good to go now/” I will have saved, what is that, an hour every month just from not taking my necklace off anymore. Which sounds silly, but when you really look at how you’re living your life and where you can be grabbing minutes, that one hour now can go to my PhD. I need to find a 100 hours a month to get a PhD in. So, I’m looking at all those kinds of things like, “How can I find that time?”


Because no one will care if I took my necklace off, but people will really care if I get a dissertation and start to make visible the invisible work that’s being done at home in academia so that Target and P&G can then fund more research so that we can make a difference for the world. That’s why I do this stuff.

Lindsay Guentzel (20:39):

It’s so funny to me hearing you talk about that, because I had this moment a while back and I was like, “I need to write about this.” I had the dishwasher open, we had done takeout that night and the takeout containers were still on the counter. I had put the leftovers into glass to put them into the fridge and the plastic was sitting there. And I’m one of those people, whatever I can reuse or recycle, I want to. And so I’m looking at these containers and I was like, “Oh, I’ll just put them in the sink to rinse them later, and then I’ll put them in the dishwasher.” Now mind you, the dishwasher is open between where I’m standing and the sink. And as I’m walking to the sink to put them in the sink and just leave them there to deal with later, I go, “This is where you just do it now, because you’re not going to come back to do it.”


And that added time and that added stress. And then if I don’t do it, the bad feelings that come from that and I went, “Okay, I’m just going to turn the sink on and rinse them out and put them in the dishwasher and close it.” But I think sometimes with my brain, I spend so much time thinking of how can this be the most productive streamlined thing, whether it’s a project or my day. I have to go to this place. Well, what are all of the things that I can get done when I go to this place? And I have to tell you, I sat down not too long ago with my virtual assistant, which if you can afford it, I understand it’s a privilege to have somebody help you. But we sat down and we went through and we organized my weeks. We booked out all of my regular appointments on the same day.


And the idea of going, I am going to do these all at once and then they’re going to be done and that is going to open up more time. And I was like, it’s kind of sexy. I’ve never thought of organization as being really exciting and I’m like, “This is a game changer.” The endorphins from that meeting, I was like, “Yes, I can’t wait for December 1st.” You know what it’s like, I was just, “Get through Chad, get through the conference in Dallas, make sure that everything goes well.” And now I get to go home and dive into that little, the excitement of it.

Lisa Woodruff (22:58):

I’ve been starting to say, or I haven’t said it very much, but our team is like, “Lisa, you need to start acknowledging that organization is self-care.”

Lindsay Guentzel (23:07):

Yeah, it is. Because again, hindsight and knowing more about yourself, when you are stressed out, it’s not good for anyone. And a lot of our stress comes from the clutter and the overwhelm. And someone said to me last month during the Refocus Together interviews talking about digital clutter, we always talk about paper clutter, but we never talk about digital clutter. And then all of a sudden you open your phone and there’s 7,000 photos on there, and are all of them important? I don’t know. But it’s that feeling of, “I can’t get rid of anything until I know.” And it’s overwhelming.

Lisa Woodruff (23:47):

And I think another thing that you were talking about was just doing it in the moment, instead of putting it off until later. I think that when my kids were younger, I would often put things off until later, until I had a bigger chunk of time and then I never had a bigger chunk of time. And so I just started learning another phrase that I say to myself all the time, especially at night, because I’m tired at night. I’ll say, “What’s one more thing you could do right now that you won’t have to do later?” Instead of, “When can I figure this out and schedule it and batch it and task stack it?” I will say, okay, what’s one more thing? And if I have a little bit more my energy, I’ll say one more thing and I’ll try to do it three times. And then I go upstairs, and three more things are done versus being pushed off till tomorrow. Sure, I could do them tomorrow, I’ll have more energy tomorrow. But also it’s really nice to come downstairs and it’s already done.

Lindsay Guentzel (24:33):

Growing up. So I’m the youngest of four and my mom was, for most of my early childhood, a stay-at-home mom. She ran her household. My father was very much undiagnosed, ADHD. He had a business with a secretary who ran the thing. And then had my mom at home. And I remember as a kid finding it so funny that after dinner everyone would go off in their own ways. My mom would clean the kitchen and put everything away. And I’m not joking the, it’s the ’80s, ’90s, there were the lights under the cabinets. And everything would be off, the lights under the cabinets would be on. And she’d go, “All right, kitchen’s closed.” And she would go and get her book and start reading. And I never understood it. And then as an adult you’re like, “There is nothing better than waking up in the morning and your kitchen is clean.” And I’m like, “I get it. That was her thing.” She knew in that moment. But she also had to set the boundary of like, “Do not come in here, we are done, this space is done. We are closing kitchen’s closed.”


And it was just so funny, because as a kid I never got that part of her routine. I don’t know that I ever really thought much about it until then you’re the one having to clean your kitchen.

Lisa Woodruff (25:46):

I love that. I want to use that. I have to do a whole podcast episode on that now. I mean, I love that she basically was saying, “My day job is done,” and then she went and read a book.

Lindsay Guentzel (25:53):


Lisa Woodruff (25:54):

I’ve never heard of anyone doing that.

Lindsay Guentzel (25:55):

It was probably the healthiest boundary she was setting.

Lisa Woodruff (25:59):

Yes. Oh my gosh. Yes. That is amazing that that was modeled to you.

Lindsay Guentzel (26:05):

Modeled to me, but it took me a while to catch on. But again, progress over perfection. I can now see, my boyfriend’s like, “Hey, when you put your protein powder in your coffee every morning, could you wipe the remnants off the counter?” And I’m always like, “Ugh, God, he’s such a stickler.” And then I’m like, “Okay, no, that is actually really annoying.”

Lisa Woodruff (26:25):

Yeah, yeah. Seeing a task all the way through to completion also I think is kind of what we’re talking about. You got all the leftovers into the glassware, into the refrigerator, but you didn’t want to do the last step. You get the protein in the powder but you don’t want to do the last step. So again, what’s one more thing like that question, okay, I’m leaving this space, what’s one more thing I could do before I leave that space? Just kind of that trigger of like, “Oh yeah, I didn’t finish this, that, and the other thing.” Because we’re onto the next thing already.

Lindsay Guentzel (26:52):

Absolutely. And so I’m curious what you just said, the finishing the tasks, how does that fit into getting ready for the holidays? Because I feel like it can feel a never ending. And I know from my own experience I’m always like, “Oh, I have to get one more gift, or I have to do this one more thing.” And then it’s the night before and you’re running around and you are just beyond stressed and is never enjoyable. And I also find it interesting that the things I do find enjoyable about the holidays are the time with people.

Lisa Woodruff (27:22):


Lindsay Guentzel (27:22):

Which I know you’re like, “Of course, it makes sense. It’s not about the stuff.” But it’s hard to get past that. Especially when if you go out anywhere, it’s literally shiny objects everywhere with sale prices. They’re just setting you up to be like, “Well, I have to do this.”

Lisa Woodruff (27:41):

Okay, couple practical tips.

Lindsay Guentzel (27:43):

Okay. I love practical tips.

Lisa Woodruff (27:45):

Practical tips. Number one, I have the Sunday basket. You might not have a Sunday basket yet.

Lindsay Guentzel (27:49):

I have it, you sent it to me. I have again-

Lisa Woodruff (27:52):

Lament the Sunday basket.

Lindsay Guentzel (27:53):

That is one of the things that is on the list for after we got back.

Lisa Woodruff (27:57):


Lindsay Guentzel (27:57):

Because I didn’t want to open it when I don’t have a place for it to be where we can actually be doing it.

Lisa Woodruff (28:03):


Lindsay Guentzel (28:03):

Again, trying to set myself up. And I know that sounds like an excuse of not starting. But had you seen-

Lisa Woodruff (28:12):

Well, you also got sick like 18 times.

Lindsay Guentzel (28:14):

Oh my gosh. The last six weeks have just been like, “Just survive. Please.”

Lisa Woodruff (28:17):

I would actually say for you to start your Sunday basket February 1st.

Lindsay Guentzel (28:21):


Lisa Woodruff (28:22):

Yes. Because you’re going to go into the holidays and you’re going to take this awesome trip, so I don’t even want it to be something you’re going to start and stop.

Lindsay Guentzel (28:27):

Okay, let’s do it. Okay, cool.

Lisa Woodruff (28:30):

I’m going to assume-

Lindsay Guentzel (28:31):

I won’t feel guilty when you’re like, “Hey, have you started it? We’re going February 1st. I got a date.” I love it.

Lisa Woodruff (28:35):

Boz though is supposed to have already started his.

Lindsay Guentzel (28:39):

I wish you could see the face. Oh my gosh.

Lisa Woodruff (28:42):


Lindsay Guentzel (28:43):

I might find a cartoon character just to superimpose that-

Lisa Woodruff (28:45):

I think we need to follow up that.

Lindsay Guentzel (28:46):

That was great-

Lisa Woodruff (28:46):

… with the ADHD Online people-

Lindsay Guentzel (28:48):

That was great.

Lisa Woodruff (28:49):

… on a regular basis on this podcast. Oh, they’re not liking that. I like doing this in person. This is so fun. Okay, so his running late. Okay, so here’s the thing. If you have a Sunday basket, a Sunday basket is just where you put all of your ideas in actual to-dos that need to be done for the week, and you proactively procrastinate them till Sunday. And then you make yourself get them all done to set you up for a great week. We don’t have that. So we’re going to start that next year. What I tell people who have a Sunday basket, or even if you don’t, is that you set up another Sunday basket only the last six weeks of the year. This is the only time you’re allowed to do this. And you proactively procrastinate everything to after the holidays. So for the new year, but for you, it’s going to be for after you get back for your trip.


From now until after you get back from your trip, if any idea you have mail that comes in request for your time comes in, that does not have to be dealt with before you get back from your trip, you put it in that box. And that is going to reduce all of the ideas that are not holiday or trip related. Now we still have all the day job holiday and trip related, which is still plenty, but we’ve removed some. Now I want you to do the holiday blitz. That I am going to have you do. You download the printables. The videos are like, I don’t know, 10 minutes long, so it’s one hour to watch all the videos, and you are going to mentally do everything that you did just about the tree. So, you’ve decided no tree. So that’s your decorating, no tree, maybe you’re going to get a little tree. Finish that decision, get whatever you’re going to get or don’t and be done with that. Let’s talk about Thanksgiving and Christmas. Are you going to be with family for either of those?

Lindsay Guentzel (30:20):


Lisa Woodruff (30:21):

Are you doing either of those or are you traveling?

Lindsay Guentzel (30:24):

Christmas has not been planned yet. For Thanksgiving we are going places.

Lisa Woodruff (30:29):

Do you have to take anything?

Lindsay Guentzel (30:30):


Lisa Woodruff (30:31):


Lindsay Guentzel (30:31):


Lisa Woodruff (30:32):

What food?

Lindsay Guentzel (30:35):

I have to bring two vegetable sides to Thanksgiving day with my boyfriend’s family. I already have the bottle of wine, my pseudo mother-in-law, that’s what I call them, she is a chardonnay drinker. And I accumulated a nice bottle of chardonnay for a while that’s been sitting in the fridge. And in my head, that’s Thanksgiving wine that I’m bringing to share with my pseudo mother-in-law, Sherry. And then for my side for Thanksgiving, we are doing appetizers. John has already decided which ones he’s doing. We are going to bring those. And then for Christmas, it’s actually when you say couples who are meant to be together, my family and John’s family have the same Christmas tradition. We oil fondue for Christmas.

Lisa Woodruff (31:18):


Lindsay Guentzel (31:19):

And so one of our responsibilities will be bringing raw items. It’s actually, it’s more the prep. You just bring it, have it ready to go. And I have said I don’t want gifts this year. If people insist on doing gifts, I want experiences. I don’t want things, I want to have plans with people. Let’s plan something. Or let’s, as a family we all put in money and we go see a play and do a nice dinner. I do not want items coming into my house. And I’m going to set that boundary. Because I have people in my life, I won’t name names, who are gift givers to the point where you’re like, “Okay, this is uncomfortable, how many gifts?” And it’s their love language, I totally understand that. But no more items. I don’t want any more items coming into my house.

Lisa Woodruff (32:12):

Okay. Can we go there?

Lindsay Guentzel (32:14):

Yeah, please. Please.

Lisa Woodruff (32:15):

Okay. Here’s what I find as a professional organizer. When I’m in-home organizing, in professional organizing, I’ll pull it away from you and then I’ll pull it back. When I was doing in-home professional organizing, you’re in the basement, I was often with a baby boomer parent and a millennial child. And the baby boomer parent had stuff everywhere and the millennial child was like, “Get rid of it all. I don’t even understand why you kept this to begin with. This is a waste of time.” And so I had this conversation with them. And this is what I said. To the baby boomer I said, “What your child is telling you is that they want to spend time with you. And that this stuff that is here is a lot of work that needs to be done at home so that they can’t go out and spend time with you. They want to have experiences.”


And so I said to the millennial child, I said, “This is an experience going through this basement with your mother is an experience. I want you to take this as an experience you’re having with your mother.” Then I said to the millennial child, I said, “Everything in this basement represents the hard work and dedication that your parents have put into providing for your future and giving you a legacy. And this is how they knew how to do this. And in the ’80s when they stood in line for the Cabbage Patch doll overnight because you wanted one, and now they have it stored in the basement along with the Beanie Babies and everything else that was of the ’80s. It was really hard to get that. It wasn’t a click on Amazon and it showed up the next day. They had to save money, they had to defer from their own wants to get that money, and then literally stand in line overnight to get you a really ugly looking doll that you loved for a week. But it represented a lot of hard work for them to do that.


And so you are saying this is all trash, just get rid of all of it is saying, “How you raised me and how you deferred your wants for my wants was worthless. I don’t even know why you wasted that.” And once we had that conversation the first time, I’ve done this many times. Both the mom and the child were like, “Oh, so you are saying I only want experiences. I don’t want your gifts?” The people who are giving you gifts. It’s like this is their way of saying, “I have taken money that I would spend on myself, but I am spending it for you. And this is something I love. So I want to share this thing with you. But it’s a material thing. It’s not an actual physical thing.” And so it’s okay, you just have to accept the love. You don’t have to keep the thing.

Lindsay Guentzel (34:50):

I know. love that you do say that and I love that you’re explaining it and I think communicating about those things is so important.

Lisa Woodruff (34:57):


Lindsay Guentzel (34:58):

But we actually did something a few years ago that I really enjoyed. Where each couple bought the other couples in the family their favorite thing at the moment. And so John and I did our favorite cookbook and some of the products that came along with that. And then, oh gosh, what was the … But my girlfriends and I have done it where when we get together, we’ve done scarf exchanges. So something that is usable, but you pick out something pretty. There was a friend that took home her own scarf, which I think is such a faux pas. Buy two, buy your own.

Lisa Woodruff (35:33):

Fighter her for it. Why didn’t you fight her for it? Harder?

Lindsay Guentzel (35:36):

It was once we were like, she’s taking home her own scarf. We just kind of let it happen. But we also did one year, which I thought was so fun, we did your favorite beauty product under $20 and everyone went home with everyone else’s favorite beauty product. So it was like things you were, oh my gosh, this is great. And I shouldn’t say that I don’t want things. But I think sometimes, well give me a list and it’s like give me your list of things that I need as a 30-year-old. Most of those things are things that I’m purchasing. I think it’s great if someone walks past something, a painting, a sweater, a scarf and is like, “Oh my God, I want that for Lindsay. That would be so great for her.” That to me I can understand. But telling you that I want pajamas .. Or honestly our list right now, our Christmas list will be a new furnace because that’s what we’re in the midst of right now. Which is great time for that to be happening.

Lisa Woodruff (36:27):

I’m going to keep pressing into this, because I mean, the holidays, this is probably the hardest part. And you said you keep adding. Then some people will be like, “I love to give gifts that I’ve made. One, because it was less expensive when the kids were younger, but also I’m a creator.”

Lindsay Guentzel (36:41):


Lisa Woodruff (36:42):

No one in my family wants them. No one, they hate them. They think it’s like, “Eh, you’re cheap.” I’m like, “No, I gave you my time. Do you know how much my time is worth?” And so here’s the thing, you just have to, you’re not going to change people. The thing that I’ve learned in my life is that I am only in control of myself, not my spouse, not my children, not my parents, no one. You’re not going to change them, Lindsay. They’re going to do whatever they’re going to do. So here’s the thing, you have to change your response to them.

Lindsay Guentzel (37:08):


Lisa Woodruff (37:08):

The thing is that-

Lindsay Guentzel (37:08):

Yeah, no, you’re 100% right.

Lisa Woodruff (37:11):

Whatever is Judy is always going to give you a candle every year. And you’re allergic to the smell of … I’m allergic to Christmas trees. And then they give you the pine candle. If I smell it, I’m in the hospital. I’m like, “Thank you so much.” Straight to goodwill. It doesn’t matter. You just need to know that when this person does this, what is your response going to be? You’re in control of your response, not their action.

Lindsay Guentzel (37:29):

That’s a very lovely way to put it. And I would like to ask, can I at least set the boundary if we are doing gifts that I’m only giving experiences?

Lisa Woodruff (37:37):


Lindsay Guentzel (37:38):

I can do that?

Lisa Woodruff (37:39):

Yes, you may.

Lindsay Guentzel (37:40):

That I am okay with it.

Lisa Woodruff (37:40):

And they probably won’t like it, but it’s fine. You don’t like if they’re [inaudible 00:37:44]-

Lindsay Guentzel (37:43):

You don’t know. I might be a great experience planner.

Lisa Woodruff (37:45):

You probably are. But the people like to give and receive in their love language. Like you said with the cookbook, that’s great. If you’re giving it to somebody who loves gifts and you want to do a cooking thing, that you give them the stuff for the cooking thing and then you go to their house and you make the meal, you’re getting the experience and they’re getting the gift.

Lindsay Guentzel (38:06):

I feel like I need to text my boyfriend right now and be like, “Okay, you were right. People can’t change. I’m going to stop fighting.”

Lisa Woodruff (38:12):

No, they don’t. And also, I wanted to mention earlier, can you just, it’s his family. Can he do the two vegetable sides also? You’re here and he’s there. Is he at the grocery store now? Because my husband just texted me, “What is this that you wrote on the list?”

Lindsay Guentzel (38:25):

Oh, he’s definitely the planner. He’s the saving grace in our relationship. He’s the one that goes, he’s organized, he is on point. I’m the one that brings the flare. I’m the like, “Well, we’re going to do this but we’re going to do that as well.” But yeah, no, it’s a great split on that side of things as far as responsibilities. I do really feel like we have a good balance on those scenarios. I sometimes feel like if it’s a gift or it’s something that is impromptu, it falls on me. But I also don’t know that men think, okay, someone invited us over for dinner. In my mind you bring something. And then in his mind sometimes he’s like, “Well, they invited us over.” And I’m like, “Oh, you didn’t grow up in my … it’s also easy way.

Lisa Woodruff (39:15):

Well, I love how you already have the Chardonnay too. And also with the gifts, people do want to give you gifts that you want and you want experiences. And if you already know they aren’t going to give you experiences, then I’m sure there’s some things you buy that you buy on a regular basis. They’re a little bit more pricey than you want to be spending, but you really like that thing. Give them the list. Just give them the list.

Lindsay Guentzel (39:35):

I know. No, you’re right, you’re right. And I got to stop fighting it. And I don’t know why I keep fighting-

Lisa Woodruff (39:40):

You’ll be so much happier when you stop fighting it. Because it’s so fun to be around the people. And then it’s all about this gift stuff. Also, once my husband’s sister had kids, we stopped exchanging Christmas gifts. We just do birthday gifts and we just buy gifts for the kids. And I’m telling you, it’s so much better now. Because we were just goodwilling all that stuff.

Lindsay Guentzel (40:01):

Can I ask, when can you say … So Christmas is going to come fast. It does not matter. Every year we feel like it comes really fast after Thanksgiving, when can you reach out to people and go, “Hey, what’s the plan for this?” Because I think sometimes people wait until the last minute and then you’re scrambling. And I don’t, even just talking about this right now, I’m like, “I don’t want that to happen.”

Lisa Woodruff (40:23):

I know.

Lindsay Guentzel (40:24):

When can I reach out and be like, “All right everyone, let’s get on the same page.”

Lisa Woodruff (40:28):

Yeah, they’re never going to get on your page. Have we established it yet? They’re not getting on your page. What we did was we went through really hard financial times and nobody wanted to stop the gift giving. And then it was my husband’s sister went through financial times and the gift giving stopped like that. Some people have a little bit more sway. I’m not that person in any of my families, by the way. Frustrates me. And finally I was like, “Okay, well, whatever.” I would start buying gifts really early in the summer because I had to buy them on such discount because I didn’t have the money for Christmas. And nobody seemed to care. And then once they said, oh we think when we’re … Great we’re in. Because we were ready for them to say we’re in. Because the first one that says we’re not giving gifts, you are the Scrooge. Especially because you’re going on a three week trip, you clearly can afford it. That’s what they’re thinking.

Lindsay Guentzel (41:14):

We’re road tripping and staying with my sister.

Lisa Woodruff (41:16):

Doesn’t matter. What they heard was you’re taking a three week trip and you’re not buying me a $20 candle, Scrooge.

Lindsay Guentzel (41:22):

Yes, very-

Lisa Woodruff (41:23):

That’s what they heard.

Lindsay Guentzel (41:24):

Yeah, no-

Lisa Woodruff (41:25):

Just buy the candle, and you know what? We make it such a big deal. We’ve got to think about it. And this is going to be a whole big thing. And everything has to be unique and special. No, you just make a list. This is how much we spend. I have a little list of what everybody likes. You get a candle this year, you get a gift card next year. The next year you’re get a cookbook there, you’re get a candle again.

Lindsay Guentzel (41:46):

I mean, last year I gave my brother-in-law five pounds of bacon. I’m not joking-

Lisa Woodruff (41:52):

And you know what-

Lindsay Guentzel (41:52):

I literally from the butcher-

Lisa Woodruff (41:52):

I bet he would take that every year.

Lindsay Guentzel (41:54):

He was so stoked. It was bacon and bacon socks and bacon dress socks. And he was like, “This is amazing.”

Lisa Woodruff (41:59):

And this year it could be really nice sirloin.

Lindsay Guentzel (42:05):

I want to-

Lisa Woodruff (42:05):

Sirloin socks.

Lindsay Guentzel (42:05):

… change it.

Lisa Woodruff (42:05):

And [inaudible 00:42:06] this.

Lindsay Guentzel (42:05):


Lisa Woodruff (42:06):

And he’ll like, “When’s the bacon year coming back?” Seriously, it’ll become a thing.

Lindsay Guentzel (42:10):

I’m just going to start giving a meat. I love it.

Lisa Woodruff (42:11):

And just make rules for yourself and then just knock it off the list.

Lindsay Guentzel (42:15):

What is one thing as we wrap this up that you are excited about for the holidays this year?

Lisa Woodruff (42:20):

I have a grand baby.

Lindsay Guentzel (42:21):


Lisa Woodruff (42:21):

I know.

Lindsay Guentzel (42:22):

It’d so great.

Lisa Woodruff (42:23):

He’s so great. He just started walking. He’s 14 months, so that’s going to be really, really fun.

Lindsay Guentzel (42:26):

Oh, this is the first Christmas then you’ll really get to engage.

Lisa Woodruff (42:31):


Lindsay Guentzel (42:31):

And are you preparing for the fact that it’ll just be really exciting when he sees a box, you’ll be like, “Oh look at this toy.”

Lisa Woodruff (42:36):


Lindsay Guentzel (42:36):

And then he’ll be in the corner with the box and the wrapping paper.

Lisa Woodruff (42:38):

And here’s the thing, now I can afford to buy whatever I want for this baby. And I said to my daughter, “I’m buying everything from a resale shop for five bucks a piece.” Because he plays with it for two months. I said, “But I’ll buy you a nice wooden table that he could sit at for the next four years and have his snack and everything.”

Lindsay Guentzel (42:53):

I love that you have that figured out in your head.

Lisa Woodruff (42:55):


Lindsay Guentzel (42:55):

Because I think that that is something … I mean, I love secondhand shopping, clothes, furniture, everything. And as a teen, my sisters who are older, we’re really into it. And we would go and I was so snooty, oh gosh. And now as an adult, I’m like, “Why were we not more engaged in this?” I have a friend who’s on one of those buy nothing Facebook groups. And I’m like, “I don’t want to do it. I don’t need to bring anything in. But I need to get rid of stuff. Maybe if I needed something specific, but you’re kind of like, “Yes, yes.” Think about where you want to be spending your money.

Lisa Woodruff (43:30):

We want to put them in daycare, which is basically like school, and that’s where all of our money is going to go. In order to do that, I mean he really doesn’t … I’ll buy new shoes. I’ll buy new furniture that’s going to be around for more than five years. But other than that, babies go through things so fast. So fast, it’s just not worth the money.

Lindsay Guentzel (43:48):

I found pre-ADHD diagnosis, I really struggled with clothes especially, because my size would fluctuate and I would be buying all of these different things. And so it’s so nice when you become comfortable buying secondhand. And I say I become comfortable. I think there are a lot of people who are not comfortable buying something that someone else has used.

Lisa Woodruff (44:14):

Okay. But did they even use it? That’s the thing. When you buy women’s secondhand, you’re usually buying things that they bought at a store, sometimes on sale, that they wore once or never. And when you go secondhand, because that’s how I built my whole wardrobe in 2012, because I didn’t have any money and nothing fit. When I started buying things secondhand, I found all the stores. I would’ve never found White House Black Market or some of these stores. But those are the pants that fit me the best. But when you’re trying on 20 different brands in your size, you quickly find which one fits your body, so it’s awesome.

Lindsay Guentzel (44:49):

I realized something, I was shopping for this trip and I wanted some new shoes and new pants. And I realized when I shop in a store and I try things on there, I’m much more impulsive. I’m much more likely to take things that I’m not crazy excited about. And I realized once I was home, yes, I will have to go and return so much stuff. But because I was at home, I was in my comfort space, I had more time. I didn’t feel rushed. It’s my comfort, it’s my place. I put on even pajamas. And in the old voice was saying, “Well, they don’t look great. I mean, they’re fine, and they’re only $15.” And my new voice was saying, “That’s my $15. I want to spend it on something I actually really want.” And I took them off and I put them right back in the bag. Same, put on shoes. And I realized, I was like, I wonder, it’s a combo of the impulsivity, not wanting to upset people. Especially if someone helps you in a store. Someone helps you in a store-

Lisa Woodruff (45:53):

Yes, I get that, “Don’t help me in a store. Please don’t help me.”

Lindsay Guentzel (45:56):

Yes, don’t help me unless I ask you. And then I want you to help me. Set those boundaries early. But it was, it was realizing in order to have a closet of clothes that I want to wear, I need to change how I’m purchasing them. And when I get home, I will be going on this mass return. And I just was like, ‘Yeah, you know what?” My mom was like, “Oh my gosh, that’s going to take you all day.” And I go, “No you won’t. But I’ll listen to podcasts and I’ll be running through or listening to something that I need to get ready and I’ll get it done.

Lisa Woodruff (46:28):

And once you find the clothes that you like, I don’t like a collar. My husband would love me to have this dress shirt with a collar on it. I hate a collar. So now that I know that I can-

Lindsay Guentzel (46:38):

Stop trying to make collars happen.

Lisa Woodruff (46:39):

I can articulate it and he’ll buy it. And I’m like, “It has a collar, it’s going to sit in the closet. I won’t wear it.” Because I just don’t like a collar. It bothers me.

Lindsay Guentzel (46:48):

I have the same thing. I said, stop buying high neck sweaters. You look best and enjoy a V-neck and a turtleneck.

Lisa Woodruff (46:56):

Right, V-neck, I’m all for the V-neck.

Lindsay Guentzel (46:58):

Right? Well, yes.

Lisa Woodruff (46:59):

And a turtleneck. Me too.

Lindsay Guentzel (47:00):

I’m a team turtleneck.

Lisa Woodruff (47:00):

Me too.

Lindsay Guentzel (47:01):

But it was that thing where you see things and you’re like, oh, it’s really cute. And I mean, I may be able to style it and then I’ll get this. And when you’re at home you’re like, “Nope. No, it doesn’t work.”

Lisa Woodruff (47:12):


Lindsay Guentzel (47:12):

Yep. I did learn quickly though when I do this at home, I’m just going to stay in my room and not ask for opinions from-

Lisa Woodruff (47:19):

You have to-

Lindsay Guentzel (47:20):

… my partner-

Lisa Woodruff (47:20):

… start trusting yourself and then honoring yourself. Even if everybody else tells you, you look good in that color or that designer or whatever. If you don’t like it, you just have to start saying, “Oh, thank you so much.” And then only get the things that you like.

Lindsay Guentzel (47:36):

The holiday blitz, people can go online and find it and all of that. And then you mentioned there’s another one that comes up at the end of the year.

Lisa Woodruff (47:40):


Lindsay Guentzel (47:40):

Let’s touch on that quick?

Lisa Woodruff (47:42):

Out with the old blitz, everyone wants to get rid of everything that’s not breathing and sometimes things that are breathing, but we don’t focus on that. From December 26th to the 31st, we really walk you through how to declutter and organize your bedroom. Children through adults, everyone gets sent to their bedroom the last week of the year to declutter their closets, their bedrooms, their nightstands, their bathrooms, all of that. To get ready for the new year.

Lindsay Guentzel (48:04):

What is the biggest mistake you see in bedroom organization? Or what’s the thing in a bedroom that you’re like, get it out of there, that people are holding onto?

Lisa Woodruff (48:16):

For adults, they tend to use bedrooms as storage rooms of things that they don’t want their children to touch or see or have, or they just haven’t made it to the storage room. And adults don’t give themself enough time to organize their bedroom. They’ll do their closet, but they don’t do their bedroom. So literally it’s like they’re living in a storage room. And then for children, I like to call a child’s bedroom their mini apartment and really giving them the ownership and autonomy over that space. And then giving them enough time to go through all the categories. Clothing, toys, books, sleeping, it’s all in there. Parents tend to focus a lot on the kids. Put yourself in your room. Give yourself some time to clean out your room too.

Lindsay Guentzel (48:55):

What are you going to be focusing on?

Lisa Woodruff (48:57):


Lindsay Guentzel (48:58):

On the 26th to the 31st?

Lisa Woodruff (49:00):

I am really getting ready to go back and get my PhD. I am working in all my routines. I actually, Black Friday and that weekend I always buy all my makeup for a year. Because that’s when it’s all on sale, so I will have stockpiled all that. I’ll be going back to school at the beginning of January, so I am actually going to figure out what I need for four full months. Clothes, undergarments, beauty. I will probably buy four months worth of protein bars, just so I have it all already there. So I don’t have to think about that when I start this new thing that I haven’t done in a long time.

Lindsay Guentzel (49:32):

That’s a very good way to look at it. Take out as much added stress during that time, right?

Lisa Woodruff (49:37):


Lindsay Guentzel (49:38):

Obviously we will chat well before you start this new journey. I’m so excited to hear about it. I’m truly really proud of you. I think it’s-

Lisa Woodruff (49:46):

Thank you.

Lindsay Guentzel (49:46):

… really exciting. I think there’s going to be really cool stuff to talk about. I can’t wait to dive into it. But I just wanted to thank you again for sharing so much of your time and energy, and for challenging me. I’m like, “Yep. No, you’re right. We can’t change it.” I’ll just start thinking of things I want and actually put it down and make it known and then not fight it and go from there. So, thank you so much.

Lisa Woodruff (50:10):

And thank you.

Lindsay Guentzel (50:11):

Please tell everyone where they can find out more information about the awesome stuff you’re doing.

Lisa Woodruff (50:15):

The website’s Organize 365. The podcast’s Organize 365. I’m Organize365 on Instagram.

Lindsay Guentzel (50:22):

Nice and easy. I have to tell you this will be the great ending and it’ll be a lovely one for you to take with you is, a woman stopped up here and was asking about the podcast and I would say she was probably around my mother’s age and she handed me her phone and said, “Can you just find it in the app? Just, go find it.” And I said, “Sure.” And she handed me her phone and I went into her podcast apps, yours was in there.

Lisa Woodruff (50:43):


Lindsay Guentzel (50:43):

And I said, “You know Lisa?” And she was like, “Oh, I listen all the time.” And it was great. And I know that, that is something that will boost your spirits a little bit and you’ll get to take that away, so I just wanted to share that.

Lisa Woodruff (50:54):

Thank you.

Lindsay Guentzel (50:58):

Refocus with Lindsay Guentzel is a collaboration between me, Lindsay Guentzel and ADHD Online, a telemedicine mental healthcare leader offering affordable and accessible ADHD assessments, medication management, and teletherapy. You can find out more about the work they’re doing by visiting adhdonline.com. Our show’s music was created by Louis Inglis, a songwriter and composer based out of Perth, Australia, who was diagnosed with ADHD in 2020 at the age of 39. To work with Louis and to create your own music, I’ve shared all of his links in the show notes. And to connect with the show, or with me, you can find us online at refocusedpod@lindsayguentzel, or you can email us directly at [email protected].

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For those seeking an Assessment, you can dive right in! Our portal is up throughout the holiday!

If you have a question for us, our office will be providing holiday patient support on July 3 & 4, and we are committed to responding to your needs as promptly as possible. In-person phone support may be available but limited due to holiday hours.  You can always submit a request or leave a voice message and we will prioritize addressing them upon our return. We genuinely appreciate your understanding. Full office operations will resume on Wednesday, July 5.

If you already are on our Treatment path, be aware that each of our clinicians sets their own holiday hours. Check with your doctor for availability.

ADHD Online will be closed on June 19th in observance of Juneteenth.

Live support will be unavailable while we’re closed but you can always submit a request or leave a voice message. We’ll get back to you when we return on Tuesday, June 20th.

Each of our clinicians sets their own holiday hours. Check with your doctor for availability.

Looking to take our Assessment? That’s available all day, every day, whenever and wherever is best for you!

ADHD Online will be closed on June 19th in observance of Juneteenth.

Live support will be unavailable while we’re closed but you can always submit a request or leave a voice message. We’ll get back to you when we return on Tuesday, June 20th.

Each of our clinicians sets their own holiday hours. Check with your doctor for availability.

Looking to take our Assessment? That’s available all day, every day, whenever and wherever is best for you!