Phil Rodemann (00:00):

Knowing the diagnosis doesn’t change your past one iota but it changes your outlook on the future. It gives you hope that things can be different and I wish I had known sooner.

Lindsay Guentzel (00:17):

You are listening to Refocused Together and this is episode 19, Phil Rodemann and changing your outlook on the future.

(00:37):

Welcome back to Refocused, a podcast all about ADHD. I’m your host, Lindsay Guentzel and Refocused Together, the special project we started last year for ADHD awareness month where we share the stories of 31 people with ADHD throughout the month of October, it is rolling on. And you just heard a bit from today’s guest, a name and voice you’ll recognize from your time listening to the show.

(01:05):

Today, we’re sharing the story of Phil Rodemann. He’s the coordinating producer for this podcast and he’s also someone who has faced the challenges of ADHD throughout his life. As a kid, Phil moved frequently, attending six different elementary schools before sixth grade. Inspired by his dad, he went to college, became an accountant then became a real estate agent and eventually settled in as an IT professional. Phil struggled with focus and accomplishing tasks his whole working life until it was time to retire. A few years ago, Phil’s daughter was diagnosed with ADHD. When she learned that there was a genetic component to the condition, she sat down with her dad to discuss the possibility that he also had it.

(01:56):

Initially, Phil brushed off the idea but, after doing some research, he decided to seek out an evaluation. Technically, it was two evaluations but they both confirmed one very important thing, Phil had ADHD. At 64, Phil got the opportunity to reevaluate his entire life from a different perspective and reflect on his past using this new understanding. Let’s hear more from Phil about what he’s focusing on as he moves forward with his inattentive ADHD diagnosis, what’s making life with his family extra sweet these days and the joy he’s found while working on a podcast all about ADHD.

(02:50):

Well, you, more than anyone, know that we start every episode of Refocused Together with the same questions so I will just lay them out. Tell me a little bit about when you were diagnosed and what that diagnosis was like and what initially sparked that conversation.

Phil Rodemann (03:09):

Well, I was originally diagnosed, it’s less than a year ago but I was diagnosed twice. When I first sought out a diagnosis, it was very difficult to get in to see anybody to get that diagnosis. So, I reached out to ADHD Online and went through their process and got the results back on October 8th of last year. But then, when it came time to get the medication for it, my local doctor would not accept the diagnosis so I had to get diagnosed again and that came back with the exact same diagnosis. So, I am double diagnosed, I only get one med though. So, it was … What was it? It was a enlightening moment, I guess.

(04:07):

What prompted the conversation was my daughter had started college and she was struggling and she advocated for herself, she thought she had ADHD. She had talked to numerous people, some of which are psychologists who don’t specialize in ADHD, but told her they didn’t think she had it. She advocated for herself and she got diagnosed. As she learned more about it, she realized that it tends to go in families and she noticed some of the symptoms in me and so she talked to my wife and then my wife talked to me and I said, “I’m 64 years old, how can I have ADHD?” But it sat with me and I started looking up symptoms and I realized that I have had a lot of the symptoms since I was very young and I just always thought that this is the way life is. So, that’s what prompted me to get diagnosed, to reach out and it was eyeopening, really.

Lindsay Guentzel (05:29):

I want to hear about the symptoms that stood out for you but, before we do that, I want to go back to the actual process of being diagnosed because you mentioned you went through two of them. And I’m hoping you would explain a little bit more about what both of them were like.

Phil Rodemann (05:42):

Sure. The first one was online and I didn’t know what to expect because, really, because of COVID, so much with healthcare had gone online but I didn’t know whether the process was going to feel legitimate or not, if that makes sense. And in going through the process with ADHD Online, I felt it was really pretty thorough. There was a questionnaire that you completed online and some difficult questions and you could stop and go back and finish it later and I think it took me a week or two to do the whole thing. There was also a test, if you will. When I received the diagnosis, it was very thorough. I had the opportunity to speak to somebody afterwards but it was very thorough and it came out as, primarily, inattentive ADHD.

(06:48):

When I went through the process locally, I was able to get in to somebody who could do that diagnosis via Zoom even though it was in the Twin Cities area and I actually didn’t feel like that one was as thorough. It was conversational and I got asked questions about symptoms and how long I had had these symptoms. There’s always a little bit of apprehension, I think, when you go through this because I think, by the time you’re seeking out a diagnosis, you’re already convinced you have it and you’re thinking it could change things for me going forward. So, then, after it’s done and you’re waiting for the results of the diagnosis, you get scared that the diagnosis is going to come back.

(07:47):

And especially because this was my second time through, I was worried that the first one was going to say yes and the second one was going to say, no, you don’t. But it came back exactly the same but I had to do it because I did want to try stimulant medication. And I actually did that through ADHD Online and the very first medication I was put on and the very first dose that I tried, which is a pretty low dose, it worked wonders, it was like night and day. So, I was then going to transition to my primary care doctor and have him prescribe the medication primarily because, I know you know how it goes, you have to call every month and get a new prescription. In fact, I have to do that later today. Making that transition was the reason and, if it didn’t come back confirming the diagnosis, I was not sure how I was going to be able to get that medication going forward.

Lindsay Guentzel (08:56):

It’s interesting how much executive function you need to have ADHD which in itself is a disorder that is lacking in executive function.

Phil Rodemann (09:08):

The way our whole healthcare system is, you have to advocate for yourself. And in order to do that effectively, you have to have executive functioning skills, not only in terms of organization, but in terms of remembering to do something and then, not only remembering, but actually executing.

Lindsay Guentzel (09:30):

You mentioned some of the symptoms that stood out after your daughter went through her journey and saw some signs in you. I happen to be the daughter of a person who, I think, very much had undiagnosed ADHD. What was it that immediately jumped out at you?

Phil Rodemann (09:46):

It wasn’t so much what jumped out at me, it’s what jumped out at everybody else and it was the inability to get up and do something. By get up I mean getting up out of a chair and doing something that needs to be done. No problem getting up in the morning and I find that, with me, routine is something that I really need in my life. And I was relatively newly retired, I retired in October of ’21, I was about a year into my retirement when I was diagnosed and it was primarily because I was sitting around the house unable to do anything. I think back when I was young, I have a brother and a sister and they’re both older than I am, when I was very young, I could flash temper, get very frustrated, go from zero frustration level to totally frustrated very quickly and that was one symptom that really showed up.

(11:01):

It didn’t show up really in friendships or anything like that but more at home. And I can remember my father telling me, “You’re really going to have to learn how to control that,” and the way I controlled it initially was just internalizing it. And I thought back to my parents and the way that they would talk about me in school was that I must be gifted because I didn’t seem to have any trouble with the schoolwork but was always reported I was in my own head, I was staring out the window or not paying attention. I was, it just didn’t really interest me that much. And as school went on, I think I was just good at taking tests, I didn’t really hit a challenge academically until college and that was an eyeopener.

Lindsay Guentzel (12:04):

I’m curious how much of your journey and where you are right now and, again, it hasn’t been a crazy amount of time but how much just knowing about your ADHD has helped you.

Phil Rodemann (12:18):

Tremendously.

Lindsay Guentzel (12:19):

It’s like knowing what you’re up against, right?

Phil Rodemann (12:21):

It is.

Lindsay Guentzel (12:22):

And the reason I asked it is you said this get up and do something that you know have to do and I think we all have been there. And it’s knowing that I have ADHD and what I’m working against and why getting up might be difficult makes a world of difference.

Phil Rodemann (12:39):

It does and that’s part of it. It makes a difference in a lot of different ways, really. Knowing the diagnosis doesn’t change your past one iota but it changes your outlook on the future. It gives you hope that things can be different and I wish I had known sooner. Back when I was in high school, even though ADHD existed, nobody really knew about it. You knew about kids that misbehaved in school but that was primarily boys who were very active and that’s part of the problem in recognizing it is that it is so ingrained in everybody, including some doctors, that, well, you probably don’t have it because and the because is because they maybe don’t recognize the symptoms.

Lindsay Guentzel (13:40):

Again, knowing that this is a new thing for you, I’m curious, when you look back, and this can be from your journey to get here or in the last year, what is your biggest struggle with ADHD?

Phil Rodemann (13:56):

I think it continues to be being as efficient in doing things as neurotypical people. I had mentioned being in my head, I think, my whole life, I had always gravitated towards doing things that I had an interest in and, the more I had an interest in it, the more time I would take with it because I would want to do that thing the best. And that was something that I think my dad ingrained in me that, if you don’t do something right the first time, when are you going to have time to do it again and so I was always trying a little bit of the perfectionist. I realized lately, that’s not necessarily the best way to do it and it is enlightening as I look back on my career.

(14:57):

And if I spend a lot of time looking back, which I will do to try and help give me perspective on where I am now and where I’m headed, but I can’t dwell on it. But I think I probably left a lot on the table, so to speak, in terms of potential.

Lindsay Guentzel (15:16):

I’m curious what you’re actively doing to try and help some of these feelings that you’re dealing with now and maybe what you’ve tried in the past.

Phil Rodemann (15:25):

I was diagnosed with depression and anxiety in the past, I’ve done CBT, I’m on a antidepressant, I was on an anxiety medication as well. The stimulant medication I’m on now is pretty much taking care of the anxiety. I had my first panic attack when I started middle school, was in a new school and everything was unknown and the symptoms went off and on for about a week and then I had another one when I started high school. So, anxiety has pretty much always been there and so it’s great to have that at so much of a lower level. But in terms of what else besides, I think that all of the small things that people recommend or doctors recommend that you see online and that’s everything from getting exercise, getting outdoors, getting sun, that’s difficult sometimes in Minnesota, so maybe a happy light, eating those help a lot.

(16:39):

Even if only for me, it helps to reinforce a routine. Routine is really good for me. And so, I’m retired but I get up every morning at 7:00, I get 30 minutes of cardio and I try and mix in other exercise. But other than that, my whole life, I’ve really been a student of organizational systems I think because I found that they helped me a lot. And so, ways to know what needs to be done and ways to feel comfortable that everything that needs to be written down is.

Lindsay Guentzel (17:22):

What are some of the ways that you keep that structure in your life? Is it a planner? Is it your phone? Is it a combination of things?

Phil Rodemann (17:30):

I’m not a real tactile person so, if I read a book, I’m very comfortable having it on a Kindle. There are advantages to that but not a requirement for me. I’m a technical guy, I’ve always enjoyed that. My third career was in IT and I spent over 20 years doing that so I’m very much into the digital organizers, that kind of thing. I have an app that is a to-do list, I have an app for taking notes, I have a calendar and I’m a student of all of this and so, lately, there are people that are talking about three-dimensional calendars. If you have some time sometime later, I can fill you in on what that is.

Lindsay Guentzel (18:28):

Much later. I hear three-dimensional calendar and I’m like, “No.” I’ll just smile and nod a lot, okay?

Phil Rodemann (18:35):

My wife always did when I would talk about work.

Lindsay Guentzel (18:39):

I’m curious where you see yourself thriving.

Phil Rodemann (18:42):

Family. And it’s a little difficult for me to answer because, in being retired, things shift a lot and so you’re not as concerned about your career. And so, my whole life, if you had asked me that question where I’m thriving, my first thought would’ve been, well, my career, it’s just not there anymore, there’s no desire to go work for a corporation. But what I really enjoy is, when I was thinking about all of this, I saw a quote by Elisabeth Kubler-Ross and she has written numerous books on death.

(19:23):

And the quote, and I can’t, it’s relatively long, but essentially what it says is that quality people aren’t just born, they come from having gone through rough times and hitting bottom personally and coming back. And those people tend to be the most compassionate and the most loving because they have depth to them and they understand how fortunate they are. And I think that that’s where my head is now is I really enjoy meeting people that have depth to them and I like seeking that out in a person.

Lindsay Guentzel (20:11):

I’m curious what your family has said as you went through the diagnostic process, as you got your diagnosis, as you’ve made changes in your life, what has come out and what stands out to you?

Phil Rodemann (20:24):

I’ve been fairly open about it and, I think most people are aware, it tends to run in family so I was probably one of the last people diagnosed on my side of the family. And on my wife’s side of the family, there are numerous people there that also have ADHD and there’s a lot of depth to people in both families and so they’ve been very, “Oh, really?” And I think what they can appreciate is that I’m excited about it and I’m looking forward and so that’s really been very accepting.

Lindsay Guentzel (21:07):

When someone does the, “Oh, really?”, what do you think they’re pointing back to?

Phil Rodemann (21:12):

In my mind it’s maybe they didn’t see the symptoms because, if you’re not diagnosed till you’re 64 and you have led … Let’s face it, I’m a very privileged individual.

Lindsay Guentzel (21:28):

But you work hard.

Phil Rodemann (21:29):

Yeah.

Lindsay Guentzel (21:30):

I’m not trying to paint over that, right.

Phil Rodemann (21:32):

No, but I recognize the fact that, in terms of looking at everybody in the world, first of all, everybody in the US is very privileged-

Lindsay Guentzel (21:41):

Yes, very much so.

Phil Rodemann (21:43):

… compared to the rest of the world. I’m very privileged because I grew up in a cohesive home and you don’t always have that, not everybody has that. I always had everything I needed and a lot of things I wanted and I’m a white male so I have been born into a lot of privilege. But I think that when people say, “Oh, really?” it’s more because maybe they didn’t perceive that in me because of how good I am at masking. That’s one thing that I really try to not do anymore is mask and it’s not always easy even if only because it’s just habit.

Lindsay Guentzel (22:27):

You mentioned feeling like you left some stuff on the table, I want to point out that while, yes, there is privilege in all of our lives, you also have worked hard to be where you are and to provide for your family. And I think that meshes in with the masking in the sense of you didn’t know what you were up against but you knew what you were up against and it made you work even harder.

Phil Rodemann (22:54):

I didn’t know what I was up against in the sense that I thought that everybody had these struggles. The example that my father set for me was that he provided for the family and he was a good dad but he traveled a lot, especially when I was younger. That being the example that was set, I always thought I was supposed to go to college and get a job and sit at a desk and provide for my family and so, everything that I was doing, I was trying to provide for my family. So, that really was the driving force behind it and I do feel good about that but I do feel that there were a lot of struggles and that maybe it could have provided better.

Lindsay Guentzel (23:45):

I don’t think better, maybe differently.

Phil Rodemann (23:48):

Yeah.

Lindsay Guentzel (23:49):

You could have done it differently, I think.

Phil Rodemann (23:50):

I’ve always been my biggest critic.

Lindsay Guentzel (23:52):

We all are.

Phil Rodemann (23:52):

Yeah.

Lindsay Guentzel (23:53):

Anyone who says differently, bless you, tell me what you’re doing because I would like to know. No, I think what I see in just this conversation, you have this example set for you and then you assume everyone is dealing with the exact same things that you’re dealing with. So, you’re looking around going, “Well, Bob and Joe, they’re doing it so I have to do it,” not realizing that you are working harder or differently and that it’s a struggle.

Phil Rodemann (24:21):

Yeah, and I haven’t spent a whole lot of time thinking in that way. Maybe I will now, thank you.

Lindsay Guentzel (24:29):

Did I ask you where you’re thriving? Have we even gotten there? God, my God, ADHD brain. Okay. I’m curious, what is giving you hope right now and what is pushing you forward?

Phil Rodemann (24:40):

I really looked at the what gives you hope differently from what gets me moving forward. What gives me hope, and this may sound trite, it is the younger generations. It is amazing to me how open and accepting they are as a general rule and I find great hope in that and we just need to find more ways to not put them behind the eight ball financially and a lot of different ways. So, that’s what gives me a lot of hope and, because of that, I really enjoy meeting young people and getting to know them.

(25:26):

What keeps me moving forward? Family. Up until this year, every Monday, my son and I would go play golf together. And this year, I’ve just got a little knee problem so we go out to dinner on Mondays. And my daughter is learning how to be an independent adult and she’s doing a bang up job at it. It’s not easy and she’s going through all the trials everybody else does but she’s doing a really good job, she’s a good human. My wife and I, we’re going to be celebrating our 25th anniversary this fall.

Lindsay Guentzel (26:03):

Congratulations.

Phil Rodemann (26:04):

Thank you. We have a trip to Italy for two weeks in late September so this will be out after that. I had a good time.

Lindsay Guentzel (26:15):

Yeah, right. I’m sorry, we can’t wait to record this till after you get back from Italy. Twenty-five years, that’s an incredible accomplishment. And I have to say, from someone who is watching from the sidelines, it appears that you two enjoy one another.

Phil Rodemann (26:30):

We really do. She’s my best friend, she’s my person and she feels the same way about me and we make sure to tell each other that it is just a wonderful way to live life.

Lindsay Guentzel (26:46):

Do you feel a shift in who you are as a person following your diagnosis?

Phil Rodemann (26:51):

No, not really and maybe that’s because it happened so late in life. As a person, I still care about the same things but I maybe care a little bit more deeply because I’ve always had a tendency, I went to … We moved a lot when I was young and I’ve always had a tendency to internalize things and I think that tended to tamp down emotion and, little by little, I think I feel a little bit better. I’m not opposed to crying at a sad movie, especially if it involves a dad and their kids, but I think that I still care about the same things and it’s just being able to see myself through a different lens, it doesn’t make me see the world necessarily through a different lens.

Lindsay Guentzel (27:43):

What was retirement like for you in those early days? And I’m curious because you mentioned that structure and routine has always been so important to you., So when you knew that retirement was coming and that you were going to be making this transition, was that something you had in place immediately or was it something you realized you needed?

Phil Rodemann (28:03):

A direct answer would be something I realized I needed. When I retired, it wasn’t the way that I had always planned on retiring. I had always planned on working until I was at 100% for my social security benefit but, when I mentioned that maybe I left some things on the table, if you’re looking for a job in IT, it’s difficult as an older person already and I don’t think my resume was convincing enough. I didn’t have enough accomplishments, I didn’t have enough positive results to show a prospective employer for them to take what they perceived as a risk hiring an older person.

(28:51):

So, I was working part-time for a couple years and was enjoying that work, I was working for Apple as a technical specialist. And so, the retirement was realizing that, if I took my social security, I could be making just as much money or more than I was making at Apple and I would have all this time on my hands to work on projects around the house. And that’s when the ADHD showed up because I’ve always done projects around the house, I have bought houses with unfinished basements and I have finished off and I’ve done the electrical and sheet rock and all of that but I couldn’t get out of the chair and do the projects around the house when I was retired and so that was the beginning of maybe you do have ADHD.

Lindsay Guentzel (29:49):

I ask because it’s something I hear come up a lot that the second the routine is gone, whether it’s through retirement or just any change in life, it’s when the wheels fall off. And so, I am always just curious because we’re seeing a great influx of people who are having this moment later in life where they’re realizing, “I’ve had ADHD this entire time and it’s not until the Monday morning alarm is gone and the” … Maybe it’s the assistant in the office who’s keeping you on track. It’s something I think of when I think of my father, it’s that moment of what do you do with your day and you are the one who has to figure that out and that’s a lot for our brains to handle.

Phil Rodemann (30:33):

And I was even still getting up in the morning. I was trying to have that routine because I’ve always known that routine is important to me to function well. And so, I was getting up at 7:00 in the morning and I was making breakfast. My wife’s job, she works out of the house for most of the time so I’d make her breakfast and let the dogs out. So, I still had some routine but it was nothing that, whereas, when I had a job, I was providing for my family and that was the driver. When I’m retired and I’m doing work around the house, there isn’t the same motivation. So, yeah, in that sense, what had kept me going before retirement just wasn’t there anymore.

Lindsay Guentzel (31:23):

I want to wrap this up by asking you what is something you wish people knew or understood better about ADHD?

Phil Rodemann (31:31):

That it’s real. There is an unbelievable amount of ignorance surrounding it even considering how far we’ve come in recognizing mental health and how important it is in the last 10 years. It’s the comments about, “Well, everybody’s a little ADHD,” and, for somebody who has ADHD, no, that isn’t true because we have always struggled to try and keep up with what we were seeing and, until you’re diagnosed, you may not realize that you are fighting an uphill battle. And so, I think that’s the biggest thing to try and improve the quality of the information that’s out there and to help to put the message out and that’s why I love doing this.

Lindsay Guentzel (32:27):

Well, thank you so much for sharing your story. When I threw it out there, the invitation, I was hoping you would take it and I’m so glad you did.

Phil Rodemann (32:34):

Thank you.

Lindsay Guentzel (32:41):

I still remember my first phone call with Phil, this was all the way back in September 2022. Phil followed me on social media because of the work I had done with Major League Baseball and, after I started sharing my own ADHD story and his daughter started discovering her own, he reached out for advice. As we heard from Phil, it was challenging for him to schedule an appointment to see a doctor and get an assessment for ADHD so he turned to ADHD Online who transparently partners with us on creating this podcast. Later, when pursuing a treatment plan that included medication, his local doctor insisted on reassessing and rediagnosing him.

(33:25):

Double checking anything medical isn’t bad, though Phil isn’t the first person to go through something like this after an initial assessment. When comparing the two processes, Phil described how his virtual assessment seemed more thorough. He received a detailed report and the opportunity to discuss it with someone after. Telehealth can also be more convenient especially when long distance, affordability and waiting lists are barriers to getting an evaluation or treatment.

(33:58):

Phil’s story makes me think of one word, access. The pandemic changed healthcare. We could connect to doctors more efficiently via phone or Zoom. In May, the Drug Enforcement Administration and the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration announced that they’d keep pandemic era rules about telehealth in place so doctors could continue to prescribe controlled substances using telehealth. This happened because so many doctors and patients advocated for telehealth, making it clear that doing it away would cut off access for people who could finally access mental healthcare and treatment.

(34:44):

Today, 35 states and the District of Columbia have parody laws which generally require health insurers to cover telehealth services the same way they cover in-person services but states often vary. Just like with the option for remote work, not having to physically sit in waiting rooms to see a therapist or doctor or get a prescription gives more people opportunities for care. Addressing the issue of access is one of the ways we can move forward with ADHD. While usage has dipped from its pandemic height, survey data shows that the number of Americans utilizing telehealth services still top pre-pandemic levels. It’s clear there is still so much work that needs to be done to make telehealth a more accessible part of the American healthcare system.

(35:36):

I always go back to the conversation I had with licensed clinical psychologist and ADHD online provider, Dr. Amy Marschall, who is based in South Dakota on how patients were driving two to three hours round trip once a month just to be able to see a provider to get their medication. It’s something Dre Wallace talked about all the way back on episode eight, driving across Michigan, not when it was convenient for her or her schedule, but to make sure that she was set up for the month. And it’s important to acknowledge that, even if you don’t have some massive commute to see your doctor, you should still be able to take care of your healthcare needs in the way that works best for you and your lifestyle. It’s the one thing I’m learning in real time right now, it is up to us as the patients to make our needs known.

(36:27):

There’s so much more for us to dive into when it comes to telehealth and how it can be utilized in your life as a person with ADHD and it’s on our list of topics to dive into in 2024. Life has been pretty hectic since Phil and his wife, Heather, returned from Italy and I refuse to let him tell me anything about the trip over a Zoom call. I want to hear about their magical time over a cup of coffee at our favorite café midway between our homes where we meet to work in person. But I thought this would be the perfect opportunity to have Phil share some of the highlights from their trip like the night they celebrated their 25th anniversary on a rooftop with an incredible view of the sun setting over Florence. Sounds magical, right?

(37:14):

Well, the lead up to that moment was anything but. Phil forgot his phone in the cab on the way over, the worst feeling especially considering how reliant we all are on our phones but especially when you are traveling in a foreign country and it’s your 25th wedding anniversary, less than ideal. Being the tech guy he is, Phil had all the safeguards in place, they could track his phone on Heather’s. Luckily, it wasn’t needed, the cab driver answered when they called and he kindly brought it back to them so they could enjoy the rest of their evening and, in return, they doubled his fare as a thanks. That was one of the good moments. In true ADHD fashion, there was stuff they couldn’t control like in earthquake completely unraveling a crucial travel day. I figured we’ll let Phil tell that one himself when we wrap up Refocused Together on November 13th.

(38:13):

You’ve probably heard me say how happy I am that Phil came out of retirement to give podcast life a go. Since he joined our team, he has helped out in so many ways. From helping establish some much needed organization after 50 some episodes of semi-chaotic energy to being the person our guests have been able to rely on for technical support during our interviews. We’re so lucky to have him sharing his talent and passion with us and I’m so grateful he chose to share his story with us on Refocused Together. It’s never too late to pursue your dreams, to change your career, to learn more about yourself. If these stories have taught us anything, it’s that life on the other side of a diagnosis is a much better place to be.

(39:04):

Support for Refocus comes from our partner, ADHD Online, a telemedicine mental healthcare company that provides affordable and accessible ADHD assessments and treatment plans. To learn how they can help you on your journey, head to adhdonline.com and remember to use the promo code Refocus20 to receive $20 off your ADHD Online assessment right now.

(39:36):

The biggest thanks go out to our team at ADHD Online, Keith Boswell, Suzanne Spruit, Melanie Meyrl, Claudia Gatti and Tricia Mirchandani for their constant support in helping make Refocused Together happen. These 31 episodes were produced thanks to our managing editor Sarah Platanitis, our production coordinator, Phil Rodemann, social media specialist and editor Al Chaplin and me, the host and executive producer of Refocused, Lindsay Guentzel. To connect with the show on social media, you can find us online at Refocused Pod and you can email the show directly, [email protected]. That’s [email protected].