Transcript

Lindsay Guentzel (00:01):

Welcome back to Refocused with Lindsay Guentzel. What you’re listening to today, it’s a little bit different than the podcast episodes we’ve shared with you before. This episode, this person’s story, is a part of Refocused Together, a special series the team at ADHD Online and I have been working on for ADHD Awareness Month. Every day throughout the month of October, we’ll be sharing a different person’s ADHD story, which is fitting because the theme for ADHD Awareness Month this year is understanding a shared experience, and I can’t think of a better way to really get a sense of that shared experience than by telling a different story every single day. And, to be clear, yes, that’s 31 stories in 31 days. My name is Lindsay Guentzel, and along with a team at ADHD Online, I’m so excited to present Refocused Together, a collection of stories aimed at raising awareness on just how complex ADHD is and the different ways it shows up in people’s lives. When we share stories, it’s easier to find the perspective, ideas, and tips that help us live our best lives.

(01:14):

I’m interviewing people with varying backgrounds, diagnoses, experiences, and perspectives. We’ll hear from working parents, advocates, engineers, writers, PhD candidates, and more to learn that while we may be different, we are all united by our own ADHD journeys. This special project is very near and dear to my heart, and although talking to 31 different people has been a lot of talking, I am so grateful for each person who’s shared their story with me, and I cannot wait for you to meet my guests and get to know them. Be sure to subscribe to Refocused with Lindsay Guentzel so that you don’t miss a single story this month. And with that, let’s get on to today’s episode.

(02:07):

Cathy Murphy always relied on tools to help her get through the day. Calendars, reminders, alerts, a system of physical sticky notes, plus well-timed moments of hyper focus. Returning to the office after working from home during the pandemic was the catalyst for her to get help. The open concept office space with glass walls was distracting and offered very little privacy for the system that kept her wheels turning, and it was hard to adjust to the commotion around her. Interruptions from film crews moving in and out and an active call screen display prevented the technical writer and instructional designer from doing any concentrated work.

(02:50):

Like many others with ADHD, Cathy found herself in a challenging and unpleasant situation that she wasn’t sure how to navigate because it was her job, but then she was able to connect with her doctor and was diagnosed with ADHD when she was 58. ADHD was something that seemed to run in her family, and when hyperactivity wasn’t present, everyone just muddled through it together. But Cathy’s diagnosis opened up a new world of help and resources that she never thought existed for the struggles, behaviors, and habits thought to be the norm for her. I am so excited to welcome Cathy Murphy to Refocused Together.

(03:42):

Cathy, thank you so much for joining us for Refocused Together. I’m very excited to learn more about your story, and I just really appreciate your willingness to come on and share it with us.

Cathy Murphy (03:53):

Absolutely. I’m very happy to be here with you.

Lindsay Guentzel (03:56):

I’ve asked all of our guests to start at the beginning, because telling 31 stories over 31 days, the whole point was to find as many different stories as possible to make this lineup of guests as diverse as possible, and that’s just not only considering who they are as people, but their diagnosis stories as well. So if you wouldn’t mind starting at the beginning of your own ADHD diagnosis story.

Cathy Murphy (04:24):

For many years in school, I can remember not bringing all the paperwork home. It was always hard pressed to get that all the way to where it belonged, and so my mother would refer to me oftentimes after school as the absentminded professor because she’d have to follow up on everything. Over the years, people will come to my home and remark about how many projects I have going, “Oh, look at that. You’re working on that,” or sadly, sometimes it’s, “Oh, you’ve been working on that a long time.” And so I know I’ve always thought I was busy, but over time you start to read and you trigger. And I taught school for a number of years, and so I saw kids come through, but what truly triggered it for me was COVID. We had gone home from one office in the headquarters building, and so I worked at home almost a year, and then went back to a new office situation. Open concept, all glass. I was near the elevator.

(05:17):

There was literally over my head a board just off to the left and I would have numbers flashing on it for the IT support people, and that was bad, but then one day I decided to film a commercial, and I knew I wasn’t going to make it. It was just right out there, right beside my desk glass area, lights and cameras, and, oh, lots of people. And so I said, “Okay, all these things I’ve heard over the years, I really think this is it.” So I ended up looking at ADHD Online at that point, and it was tremendous. I was so excited to be diagnosed because I knew always that it was different, but I said, “Oh, it’s creativity,” or, “I’m busy,” or whatever. I’d have students say, “You have the same energy level seventh period as you do first,” and I’m like, “Mm-hmm.” Many things triggered that event that I was actually 57 by the time I made it to that point.

Lindsay Guentzel (06:15):

What do you remember from taking the actual assessment, and some of the questions that you were asked, and some of the feelings that they maybe elicited from you?

Cathy Murphy (06:24):

Honestly, I was seeing things that so applied to me and made so much sense in the questioning, and sometimes we’d like to assume that everybody’s doing the same thing we are, like everybody’s mind works the same way and we’d all answer those questions pretty much the same, and it wasn’t true at all. I’m definitely on that range and should have realized, but did not. It was really neat to see that those questions were there and how much they applied.

Lindsay Guentzel (06:51):

Since getting your diagnosis, what has changed in your life?

Cathy Murphy (06:56):

Well, I have added some structures that I didn’t before. I would let myself find a project that I like to do after work, whatever it would be, and I would, at three o’clock in the morning, go, “Oh, I’ve been doing this for how long?” Right. So that was one thing, structuring a little bit more. And then with my work itself, learning to do the things that I really don’t like right away. Oftentimes, instead of logging what I did the day before that night after work, I’ll do it first thing in the morning because that is the most tedious thing, and get all my spreadsheets together, and I can feel good about that, but I have to do it first. The other thing I find is I’m better able to track. I still have those periods where it’s something I really like, and I don’t let go and I look up and it’s seven o’clock, and not five o’clock when I should have left.

(07:45):

But generally speaking, I have it more in check, and that feels really good. One of the things that I found is in meeting with my doctor to begin with, I had been on the medication for a time, and it was working and it was amazing. And what I told him was my brain was like a student’s planning web probably for a novel, but at any rate it was a planning web, but it wasn’t a web that went sequentially places. It was a web that went everywhere. And I literally told my brother after having been on the medication that it was like all of a sudden, not only were my thoughts linear, but my brain was quiet. And the doctor, in both of those instances, really related, and he also suffered from ADHD, or ADD as we are now, and so he was able to really relate to that and told me that I was right on. It wasn’t like I had imagined this or anything. It really was working. So it was great, really great.

Lindsay Guentzel (08:51):

You mentioned as a teacher that there were things that you noticed in similarities to maybe some of the students that came through, or there were observations that had been made through life, your mom calling you the absent-minded professor. I also could never remember to bring anything signed, amongst a lot of things. Yes, it is hard and we can look back and go we weren’t set up to have that be something that we were going to be good at without added structure. So when you look back now after your diagnosis and the answers that you’ve been given to maybe questions that you weren’t asking at the time, what do you notice about your life before your diagnosis where some of those things maybe stand out a little bit?

Cathy Murphy (09:38):

In my earlier years, I taught kindergarten and it was perfect for me. We were a small charter school, so I never had more than 12 to 15 students. So it was a small, very structured area. But unlike most teachers who had probably looked down at a watch or their cell phone or whatever it would be, I had clocks everywhere. I had one on every wall, and that way I could keep myself on task and make sure that we ran our routines. So that would be one thing that’s very, very different. Pens and pencils. Oh my word. Those are the most difficult things to stay up with, and teaching is great for that because there’s always someone who knows where your marker is. They’ll be like, “Oh yeah, it’s over there.”

(10:19):

Now, when you teach high school, it’s a little bit different because sometimes they don’t want to tell you where your marker is, even if they know. That kind of stuff. Just trying to track those little devices I know is a difference, and I know that’s at least one profession where there are people to help you find those things once you’ve left them somewhere.

Lindsay Guentzel (10:35):

I’m curious on the creative side of things. You mentioned that you love art and it’s something that a lot of the people that I’ve interviewed for this project have creative outlets, and so what is it about that that really excites you?

Cathy Murphy (10:53):

It is definitely one of those things that before medication I would literally just go on a tangent and I would be doing 15 different projects and work until the middle of the night, even though when I would know that I had other things to do in the morning, I had to go to bed, and it was just driven. And so it’s definitely an outlet, but it gives me peace. There’s just a focus in it that’s soothing and guiding, and I don’t really know how to describe it any other way than that. It’s a relaxing, mentally, just really healing process, I think, especially before diagnosis because it’s something where your thoughts are focused on something so minuscule that you stay there for a bit and then move to the next. So I think it orders your thoughts perhaps when you’re painting or drawing.

Lindsay Guentzel (11:52):

I’m wondering, you mentioned kayaking, and I bet there’s probably some of that soothingness that comes from that as well, and the reason I ask is you’re away from everything. You have to be in your thoughts. You can’t escape them. You can’t jump from task to task because you’re in a kayak on water, and unless you’re bringing stuff with you to do in the kayak, I imagine you’re focused on the task at hand.

Cathy Murphy (12:21):

Right. You are. And the water is just so beautiful and relaxing as it is. But that movement and just the amount of exercise that it is, because it’s really grueling and can go for several hours and feel like you need to rest after. So it was something that gave me sleep, just being that physically tired in the beginning, soothing both when you’re there and after. A chance to really rest.

Lindsay Guentzel (12:47):

One thing that I’ve talked about with a lot of people, because most of the people that I’ve interviewed for this project were diagnosed at some point later in life, and I say later in life meaning that it didn’t happen when they were kids, and what comes across from just the few minutes that we’ve been talking is this joyful acceptance and almost acknowledgement that you knew it was there all along, but there doesn’t feel like a lot of sadness or grief. The way you describe your diagnosis is very positive, and so I’m curious in the moments when you found out that this was something that has been there all along and that you can connect back to certain moments in life, what were some of those feelings like? How have you processed that?

Cathy Murphy (13:35):

I think that it was such a sense of relief to know, especially once there was treatment, that this could be better. That I was in control of my time, and not always. I mean, there’s still times when things get a little iffy, but I’m much more readily able to plan and to control my focus in the time that I need to. And sure, I’ve implemented strategies, but there is such a peace. Especially with work, there’s always such a worry that you’re going to miss some peace and then what’s going to happen? And I don’t really have those kinds of thoughts anymore. I’m more of a, okay, I got that done, check it off the list. And it’s changed a lot. It really has. It’s the biggest blessing I think I’ve stumbled on in a long, long while. And to know that some of the ways that I do things that seem so unusual are not. They’re just the way that we do it. And sometimes we need a little support to manage. I truly do. I feel great joy over all of it.

(14:37):

And I wish, if I could say anything to anyone is please, if you’re struggling in any way, shape, or form, test and at least know what it is. Even if you don’t want to medicate or you don’t want to do whatever strategy, find out, because it’ll give you a sense of peace just to know that there is something, that you’re not just floundering because, but there’s something. And it can be better if you choose to make it, so-

Lindsay Guentzel (15:02):

One of the phrases that I’ve heard people repeat over and over through this process of doing all these interviews is the, “It’s not an excuse, but it’s an explanation,” and so going off of what you mentioned, just having those answers doesn’t mean you have to change your life. It doesn’t mean you have to change anything. You don’t have to start medication. But just knowing, and the power that comes from that, I think is incredibly wonderful, especially for a lot of us who have felt different.

Cathy Murphy (15:31):

It really is a sense of understanding yourself that there’s nothing better. Sometimes you get really frustrated because you’re trying your best and you’re doing all these things and you still miss something and how that happened, and it doesn’t happen to the other guys and whatever. But at least knowing why you’re missing that step, and the blessings of the brain that you have and the way it works differently, the understanding that you have of things. I mean, there’s just so much good in it. If I had known as a teacher, it would’ve been just very relatable. Definitely get out there early, and if you’re feeling that you or your child might have a difference of some sort, do test and just find out.

Lindsay Guentzel (16:10):

I think it’s also so important for parents who maybe see some of these signs in their own children to test for the ability to be able to change some of the things. You mentioned not being able to bring signed parent permission slips or whatever it was to school and your mom having to focus in on you and really make sure that that stuff was getting done. And I think sometimes we don’t see how we can be better supporting those around us, and I think one of the things you mentioned the addition into your life of structure, and so I’m wondering if we can talk a little bit about that and how you view it, and maybe even some of the things that you’re actively doing now that you hadn’t before.

Cathy Murphy (16:55):

For me it’s more time management and getting those tasks that I don’t like done first and not last. What I had done for myself throughout the years is just become highly organized when it came to work. Home, not so much, but work definitely. So I have always sticky labeled, spreadsheeted, depending on what era we were in, really elaborate spreadsheets. But at any rate, keeping things organized is critical. And for years in my early work career, I would have people say, “You are so organized.” And I would think, “Not by nature. This is forced. Every bit of it forced.” Another thing that I would do is I would observe the people who are most successful in how they organize themselves and then steal that, because up here alone, I couldn’t do that. That was not going to happen. Always having that notation, always having that reminder, calendaring things. And of course the calendars now with Outlook, we have digital reminders that ping at us and all kinds of things. So as long as you can get yourself to do it in the beginning, you can just control it so much better with that structure.

Lindsay Guentzel (18:04):

I love you were ahead of the game on body doubling. You say I saw people around me who were successful, who you probably respected, and you saw what they were doing and you just took that and made it your own. And that is in a sense what we now call body doubling, which is what a lot of us, a lot of women specifically, that’s how we got through most of life, is just following the people around us who had executive functions working properly. We clung onto that.

Cathy Murphy (18:38):

And that is definitely a tool. Look for those who are doing well and emulate.

Lindsay Guentzel (18:43):

I’m curious if you have been open about your diagnosis with people in your life, and what some of those reactions were like?

Cathy Murphy (18:50):

I got a lot of, “Oh really? As if I didn’t already know that.” My family, we have a progression generation to generation where my father was a young boy sitting in school, didn’t speak English when he first started, so he was seven when he started school, didn’t speak English, and he would be out of his seat and gone just as fast as a lightning bolt. He could not physically sit still and do what they were asking him to do, and he didn’t understand, and so he was like, “No.” So there were nuns perpetually chasing him down the hall, and he was often at a fishing hole that he had. And it was a struggle for him. It was tough because there was no diagnosis, there was no anything to support, and even the CSL things that would’ve helped him along the way were not there. So he felt like he struggled a lot with school, and in reality he probably wouldn’t have had he had the supports and the knowledge that we have today, but that’s where it started.

(19:54):

So my family, they’re not surprised at all. They’re like, “Oh really? Yeah, the kids did that. Whatever.” And friends that know me well and have been to my home and seen all the things that I keep doing at once, they’re like, “Hm. Yeah, she never finishes anything I’m a hundred percent sure.” So I don’t talk about it a lot at work, but the people I’m closest to do know and not really reluctant to discuss it with friends. If I was teaching, I’d be more than willing to discuss it with a student. It’s a different world.

Lindsay Guentzel (20:25):

I’m curious what you’ve learned that has been the most eyeopening for you following your diagnosis, or anything that stands out that you didn’t know was connected to ADHD and now you do and it’s very interesting.

Cathy Murphy (20:40):

There are two things that I knew. Well, exhaustion with students. When students are very tired, they tend to not do as well, and how much that was impacting me, that was interesting to figure that out. But more so stress. Stress is just one of those things where you’re coping with a lot to start with. You’re dealing with a lot. It’s taking a lot of energy, and stress is just overwhelming, greatly interferes with the focus and being able to task well. I’m rather stress avoidant. I don’t know if that makes sense or not, but any time that I can avoid something that I know is going to be uncomfortable, in terms of escalating stress, and it’s not necessary, I don’t do it. I just decline. So yeah, coming to do an interview, I said, “Well, it’s worth it. I want people to know how important and how life changing this has been. I’ve got to do this.” Normally, something that would cause me a little stress, I might say no.

Lindsay Guentzel (21:42):

Well, I’m very glad you’re here. But I also want to applaud boundaries, because it’s very important to have them and to set them and to know why you have them, and I think that that’s a great one to have.

Cathy Murphy (21:55):

Setting boundaries is so important in every part of your life. We really need to get to know ourselves and know what’s an important boundary, and then stand fast to those. And we can say no.

Lindsay Guentzel (22:07):

I’d like to talk a little bit about medication, if that’s okay, because you mentioned you can get your diagnosis and not have to go on medication, but you chose to start a medication treatment plan and have been, sounds like, very happy with the results. So what were some of the things that you have experienced from that process?

Cathy Murphy (22:32):

The greatest thing for me was how it slowed things down. Again, with the web and the thoughts and the popping here and popping there and, “Oh yeah, I got to do this and that.” It’s really given me more of an opportunity to strategize, to slow down, to take my thoughts one at a time. I’ve started journaling more, which I should have been journaling all along more, but I couldn’t. It just wasn’t there. And the time management helps because it feels like I’ve been returned hours and hours and hours in my day with the medication. So I know that there are side effects. I know there are concerns, and sometimes I feel like when I go to pick it up I’m being interrogated, “What is she doing?” But every bit of it is worth it to be able to have the quality of life I do. I would not hesitate. If that’s what your doctor recommends, just do. You’ll be so grateful and so happy about it in the end.

Lindsay Guentzel (23:30):

I’m really glad you mentioned some of the stigmas and the preconceived notions that come with it, because I dealt with that and I’ve had people reach out to me who have been afraid to ask about it because of some of the things that are tied to it. And I feel the exact same way. It was so life changing for me that I would go through all of it every single time, line up, every pharmacist who wants to give me a side eye when I pick it up, I’ll take it all because it has been such a positive change.

Cathy Murphy (24:02):

I have been given so much of my life back that I didn’t know I was even missing, and so that’s great.

Lindsay Guentzel (24:10):

I want to know where you see yourself thriving. I don’t know if prior to your diagnosis you felt like there was a lot of things wrong. You’re very positive about all of it, and I know you mentioned getting time back and then having a clearer mind, and so when you look at life post-diagnosis and all the things now, what stands out for you?

Cathy Murphy (24:33):

The sense of peace that I have. Cannot say enough what it is to have that time back, to have the peace, to know that this what’s been different about me always, and that’s why I would say to anyone please don’t wait. Don’t be 57 and decide that there’s finally a problem. It was a problem before. You’ve struggled some struggles. Memory, because you’re focused in so many places. Memory, that kind of thing. I just feel like there’s so much that I’ve gained and that I would hate to see people miss out on. Being able to have a little more control in their life and to have a comfort level. So there’s a lot of stress in juggling so many things at once, and when your thoughts are everywhere, you’re not as productive as you’d be otherwise. I think there are things that probably career-wise people do totally struggle with, and I know from my days with the glass building, glass walls, glass elevator, glass everything that I would not have made it through that setting as it was to be able to write and focus.

(25:40):

And I’m very, very happy that I stumbled across the company that I did. To be able to do this all online has been fabulous. And to have the supports and the health checks and things that go with it. Amazing. Just convenient and fabulous, and the hardest part is the side eye at the pharmacy.

Lindsay Guentzel (26:00):

Well, I’m so glad that you’ve had a wonderful experience. I think that that is just such an added bonus for all the things that people go through when they’re getting diagnosed and going through the process of starting a treatment plan and all the things that can come with that. I knock on wood every single time when I talk about my experience with medication, because I’ve had a great one and I know that’s not always the case, and so I’m just waiting for it all to fall apart. But in the moment I’m like, “Okay, I can accept the fact that this is good.”

Cathy Murphy (26:34):

As a parent, you go through that same thing every time there’s a medication prescribed. It’s like, “Should they really have it?” But this is a definite good thing for me.

Lindsay Guentzel (26:44):

I want to ask when you look to the future what excites you? What are you hopeful about, and I’m curious if what you’re hopeful about now is different than what you were hopeful about before your diagnosis?

Cathy Murphy (27:00):

For years I had talked to students how about I’m going to write a book about this, or I’m going to write a book about these behaviors, or I’m going to whatever, and I had never begun. I had a short story here and there that I floated, but I really hadn’t begun to seriously work on a big project for myself to sell, and since that point, I’m actually working on a novel right now and I’m really excited about it. I don’t know that I could have juggled everything and gotten as far as I have, so I’m really happy about that, and I see that as a big part of my future. Those interests are steadier. They’re not a constant boom, boom, boom. It’s not two weeks on this, and then I’m a week over here, then maybe I might do this, but I’ll never get back. It’s truly a steady focus on something I want to do that I could not have done before.

Lindsay Guentzel (27:56):

I love that. You’ve mentioned the idea don’t wait. If you’re thinking about this, don’t wait, because the answers can be so powerful. But what I also hope you take away from this, and I truly mean it, so the one thing that I have struggled with is that I thought I’d be who I wanted to be, career-wise, in my twenties, and then I turned 30, and then I turned 35, and it was like, “Where is it? I’ve been working so hard.”

(28:25):

But I love hearing from you. You were diagnosed in your fifties and you are so excited about the future, and I think that that is just such a wonderful message to put out there for people who have ADHD or don’t have ADHD, that these timelines that we were told as children were the timelines we were supposed to live by are arbitrary and they don’t match for every single person. And here you are with this new excitement in life that you wouldn’t have probably been able to accomplish before your diagnosis and you get to take that energy and excitement. That to me is just such a powerful message that every day of our life is really a gift, and we get to seek out things that excite us and it shouldn’t matter what age.

Cathy Murphy (29:18):

The moment is yours right now, and if you don’t seize it, that moment’s gone. But always stay in the moment, but know they’re good things no matter what. You’re going to find them as long as you keep the energy. And we’re really gifted with the intellect that we have to just really pursue so much lifelong learning and develop ourselves. I can’t say I’m thrilled about aging, but I don’t want to stop either.

Lindsay Guentzel (29:45):

Yeah, we aren’t given a lot of options. It’s either age or don’t age. There’s not a good in between that anyone wants to look into. I’m curious, when you look at ADHD and the general knowledge of the disorder, what is something you wish people understood better?

Cathy Murphy (30:04):

That when we’re not paying attention, we are doing some great things. And it sounds silly, but what I relate it back to is the days when I was an at home mom. I had children in playgroup and I was one of probably eight moms at the most, and there were all these constant conversations and babies going around, but the amount of talking was just overwhelming. And we’d leave one group meeting, and everyone would exit that home where we were having our get together, and they would all know what they were supposed to do for the next one. And there was one person who didn’t. And I think if we knew these things about each other, we’d have that individual who was so steady and had all those details. They’d be writing it down for us. They would understand how we think so differently and all the million things that were happening around us, we were still doing a million more in our brain and we didn’t really have time to glean that information from what was around us. It just wasn’t going to happen.

(31:17):

If more people understood the way that we think and could put more emphasis on the important things, maybe help us in the spots that we need it, because we’re definitely capable of accomplishing so much once it’s channeled a little bit because we are always so full of thoughts. We find our niches and things, but we’re always so full of thoughts and ideas, just a little support.

Lindsay Guentzel (31:42):

Well, Cathy, this was such a pleasure. I am going to take your optimism and your joyfulness and digest a little bit of it and remind myself, yes, on those days when the grief is a lot and the rumination sets in on all the things that I can’t go back and change but wish I could, I’m going to be very grateful for all of the time that I have ahead, so thank you for that lovely reminder.

Cathy Murphy (32:11):

Thank you. It has been such a pleasure to meet you.

Lindsay Guentzel (32:18):

I am so grateful to Cathy Murphy for her candor and thoughtfulness as well as her optimism, and for sharing it all with us here on Refocused Together. There are so many people to thank for making Refocused Together happen. The entire team at ADHD Online, Zach Booker, Dr. Randall Duthler, Tim Gutwal, Keith Brophy, my teammates, Keith Boswell, Suzanne Spruitt, Claudia Gatti, Melanie Myle, Paul Owen, Kirsten Pipp, Sissy Ye, Trisha Merchant-Dunny, Lauren Radley, Corey Kearney, and Mason Nelly, and the team at Dexia, Hector and Kenneth and the team at Snack Media, Cameron Sterling and Candace Leke, Camilla Eden, Lauren Terry, Sarah Galbar, Phil Rodman, Jake Beaver, and Sarah Platenitis. Our theme music was created by Lewis English, a songwriter and composer based in Perth, Australia who was diagnosed with ADHD in 2020 at the age of 39. To find out more about Refocused Together, or to share your story with me, head over to adhdonline.com and check out the ADHD Awareness Month page, which highlights this project as well as each day’s episode after they’ve been released. You can also find out more by following along on social @LindsayGuentzel and @RefocusedPod.